donutsweeper (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
donutsweeper) wrote2009-08-25 10:42 am
donutsweeper) wrote2009-08-25 10:42 am
Entry tags:
A professional's opinion on fanfic
John Rogers (who among other things is the executive producer and writer for Leverage) was asked about it in his blog:
@619: I personally HATE fanfic so I was wondering..... 1)How do YOU feel about fan fiction? 2)Does it irk you that so many people "borrow" your characters and use them in their own crappy stories? 3)Do you think of fanfic as a form of flattery? 4)Do the other writers and the actors feel the same way?
1.) I think fanfic is the sign of a healthy show. Here's what it boils down to: you're telling me that in today's crowded media space, our show made someone love it so much they take time out of their own life to talk about it? Holy. Crap.
To be fair, I have a somewhat different attitude toward media/fans than most people. I think what TV/corporate media had wrong for a long time was how they understood the idea of a "water cooler show." They saw it as making the audience talk about their show, on their terms. So any fan-created media is them losing control of their material. I see this more as the natural evolution of culture in a shared digital age. I will be blunt -- other than the satisfaction of our own creative urges (and all that entails: the quest for perfection, artistry, craft, etc), our job in media is to give you stuff to talk about in your conversations, to integrate into your social circle in whatever way you see fit. I doubt that's TNT's official stance, btw, but they are much cooler about this stuff than most companies.
2.) As far as "borrowing" our characters -- to paraphrase Alan Moore, they didn't go anywhere. There they are, sitting right up on the shelf. Waiting for us to let them loose again. Besides, how many people read a fanfic story? A couple hundred, tops? We have, on average 3.5 million viewers, well into the 4 million range when you get the DVR numbers in. I just don't see someone taking control of our Ideaspace through sheer force of Slashfic.
Sure, a lot of fanfic is crap. Of course it's crap. It's written by people who are not professional writers. If I paint, what I paint is crap. Does that mean I should give up painting and displaying stuff in my neighborhood art show?
3.) Is fanfic flattery? Again, depends on how you define flattery. If someone's writing fanfic with intention of currying favor for some ... er, frankly unguessable benefit, then they're really engaged in an exercise in futility. If you mean flattery as in: it's flattering to think someone is so entertained by our work that it inspires them to talk about it and create around it, then aces.
4.) Most writers and actors don't feel this way. Some, including writers I both like personally and greatly admire, hate the idea of fanfic.
Look, end of day, you should always be trying to create your own material. But fanfic, etc, is a different process than original creation -- which I think is the source of a lot of the controversy.
People who do original creations assume the fan is taking some sort of unearned ownership, somehow implying their act is the same/as difficult as the original act of creation. Which, of course, tees them off (doesn't tee me off, but I'm a very relaxed and often drunk guy).
And some fanfic humans are under the impression that creating fanfic is the same creative process as creating original material -- and are sometimes frustrated that they're not accorded the same respect as the original creators. That's also wrong. Fanfic to me is spiritually much closer to the fan-created music videos.
The basic rule I follow here is one I learned in stand-up comedy: Always punch UP. I am a relatively successful typing human whose words are physically produced using millions of dollars and is distributed nationally by a massive billion dollar corporation to millions of people. Exactly how is a free web page with a 1000 word story about Eliot and Hardison fighting a trans-dimensional incursion of Elves hurting my brand, exactly?
Tell you what -- if some fanfic writer is so good they manage to amass a million-person audience with their web-distributed free stories using my characters, I am going to consider that evolution in action and hire that bastard. Or, at the very least, urge them to go create their own show. But odds are it ain't gonna happen. And that's okay. We write for different reasons.
Wow, that response could be its own blog post. I may break it out later, and shine it a bit.
source
@619: I personally HATE fanfic so I was wondering..... 1)How do YOU feel about fan fiction? 2)Does it irk you that so many people "borrow" your characters and use them in their own crappy stories? 3)Do you think of fanfic as a form of flattery? 4)Do the other writers and the actors feel the same way?
1.) I think fanfic is the sign of a healthy show. Here's what it boils down to: you're telling me that in today's crowded media space, our show made someone love it so much they take time out of their own life to talk about it? Holy. Crap.
To be fair, I have a somewhat different attitude toward media/fans than most people. I think what TV/corporate media had wrong for a long time was how they understood the idea of a "water cooler show." They saw it as making the audience talk about their show, on their terms. So any fan-created media is them losing control of their material. I see this more as the natural evolution of culture in a shared digital age. I will be blunt -- other than the satisfaction of our own creative urges (and all that entails: the quest for perfection, artistry, craft, etc), our job in media is to give you stuff to talk about in your conversations, to integrate into your social circle in whatever way you see fit. I doubt that's TNT's official stance, btw, but they are much cooler about this stuff than most companies.
2.) As far as "borrowing" our characters -- to paraphrase Alan Moore, they didn't go anywhere. There they are, sitting right up on the shelf. Waiting for us to let them loose again. Besides, how many people read a fanfic story? A couple hundred, tops? We have, on average 3.5 million viewers, well into the 4 million range when you get the DVR numbers in. I just don't see someone taking control of our Ideaspace through sheer force of Slashfic.
Sure, a lot of fanfic is crap. Of course it's crap. It's written by people who are not professional writers. If I paint, what I paint is crap. Does that mean I should give up painting and displaying stuff in my neighborhood art show?
3.) Is fanfic flattery? Again, depends on how you define flattery. If someone's writing fanfic with intention of currying favor for some ... er, frankly unguessable benefit, then they're really engaged in an exercise in futility. If you mean flattery as in: it's flattering to think someone is so entertained by our work that it inspires them to talk about it and create around it, then aces.
4.) Most writers and actors don't feel this way. Some, including writers I both like personally and greatly admire, hate the idea of fanfic.
Look, end of day, you should always be trying to create your own material. But fanfic, etc, is a different process than original creation -- which I think is the source of a lot of the controversy.
People who do original creations assume the fan is taking some sort of unearned ownership, somehow implying their act is the same/as difficult as the original act of creation. Which, of course, tees them off (doesn't tee me off, but I'm a very relaxed and often drunk guy).
And some fanfic humans are under the impression that creating fanfic is the same creative process as creating original material -- and are sometimes frustrated that they're not accorded the same respect as the original creators. That's also wrong. Fanfic to me is spiritually much closer to the fan-created music videos.
The basic rule I follow here is one I learned in stand-up comedy: Always punch UP. I am a relatively successful typing human whose words are physically produced using millions of dollars and is distributed nationally by a massive billion dollar corporation to millions of people. Exactly how is a free web page with a 1000 word story about Eliot and Hardison fighting a trans-dimensional incursion of Elves hurting my brand, exactly?
Tell you what -- if some fanfic writer is so good they manage to amass a million-person audience with their web-distributed free stories using my characters, I am going to consider that evolution in action and hire that bastard. Or, at the very least, urge them to go create their own show. But odds are it ain't gonna happen. And that's okay. We write for different reasons.
Wow, that response could be its own blog post. I may break it out later, and shine it a bit.
source
no subject
no subject
no subject
You *go* John Rogers!
no subject
no subject
no subject
But! Any really cool idea brought up in a fanfic can be used by the owners of the original show without lawsuit. Basically his idea is that fanfic should be legal, but the foundation concept (and any spinoff idea) rests with the show's creators.
Hey, I'd buy into that. I don't write for the money (hah!) and seeing one of my ideas get picked up and made into part of an episode would be the Best Thing Ever.
no subject
no subject
We can create from their shows without penalty; they can create from our stories without penalty.
no subject
Ha! Very true. His responses here are pretty much along the lines of my opinion on the subject, and I think I would keep that opinion if I became a television writer. (Though for John Rogers to feel this way originating from the "other side" of it is pretty cool.)
no subject
no subject
no subject
But yeah, 'original work' never had much meaning until recently. After all, didn't Shakespeare copy the plots of previous works for most of his more successful plays?
no subject
no subject
no subject
I like this man. He's very balanced in what he says and I've always thought (okay, maybe I'm biased *g*) that fanfic isn't actually harmful and yes, is a sign of a healthy show.
And I love his take on (2) that made me smile.
Kudos to him.
no subject
no subject
He does say 'a lot' is crap - and I think there's a lot of writers who'd agree. I don't, but then I don't read as widely as some. But I liked his inference that even if it is crap, the people shouldn't stop writing/posting.
Besides, one reader's idea of 'crap' and definition of it, is another reader's 'this is wonderful'. And who is to say which reader is right/wrong? Indeed, I venture to suggest that in fact neither are 'wrong' as it's their opinion.
I've read what I'd call crap, but other folk have loved (of have seemed to) so . . . Ditto I've read stuff I really enjoy, but others consider crap, because of various reasons.
There is room in fanfic for everything - or there should be.
no subject
no subject
Oh, yes. I'll agree with your there. WWOMB was the place I found a couple of G/D stories that had Gibbs as 'Leroy Jericho Gibs'!! Of all the things I can forgive, screwing up names when all you have to do is check on-line is one I find darn difficult to overlook.
no subject
no subject
no subject
It's one of the better pro-writer opinions on fic I've seen.
no subject
no subject
(That said, I have a Kane Leverage icon and not a Rogers one...)
no subject
Hmmm, I only have a Nate one.
no subject
no subject
Yes, this exactly. I never understood the people who thought fans being interested enough in the show to want more adventures and then write or read those adventures was considered a BAD thing
no subject
The "fanfic human" phrasing made me giggle. As opposed to the fanfic antelope?
no subject
no subject
You know, years from now I'm going to look through my hard drive and wonder why I downloaded all those antelope pictures.
and behold ...
Re: and behold ...
That's perfect!!!!
(and yeah, a year from now you'll be looking at what's clogging up your hard drive and spend the next hour wondering about those antelopes, it's part of the charm of the internet brain worm)
no subject
In the wild the fanfic antelope has a very unique relationship with another member of its preferred habitat, rabbitus bibliophilius. The fanfic antelope has been known to engage in herding behavior with the smaller animal, though at times it is also known to engage in non-threatening games of chase with the so-called "plot bunny" in which it can be clearly observed that it is not the dominant animal. There have been scattered reports of the two species engaging in something that appears quite similar to the children's game "hide and seek", but this has never been fully substantiated.
no subject
It has been noted that usually the two species live in harmony, except in the cases of the rabbitus earwigilius, a rare mutant form of the so-called "plot bunny" that has been known for spreading havoc among those around it.
no subject
I also like that he actually used the word "slashfic".
no subject
no subject