donutsweeper | (no subject)

I agree with you totally on both counts

Dean's speech at the end? *wibbles*

I see you the Dean speech and raise you the Sam Petting by his biggest fangirl ;-)

That was just hysterical! Especially for the look on his face. But... where was the Dean love? Especially if she was writing wincest!

True, but I found it particularly hilarious because I would much prefer to pet Dean than Sam.

And that brings me right back to Dean finally putting Sam in his place, at least as much as Dean ever will.

Same here.

And I am SO glad Dean called Sam on that crap. Because, yeah, being sorry is great and all but, dude, you started the apocalypse because you trusted a demon more than your own brother- a brother who literally went to hell for you.

Sam is always sorry when things go bad, but as long as he thinks things are going his way ie 'Sam is a hero and only HE can do things' he never feels guilt.

He's only sorry about trusting Ruby because she used him, if Ruby hadn't been playing him he wouldn't be sorry he trusted a demon more than his brother.

Yep, pretty much. He *almost* seemed to get it when not!Bobby told him to lose his number (Jared did a wonderful woobie face for that scene) but I don't think it really sank in.

What I love about the ending is Dean isn't cutting Sam out of his life. He's still willing to work side-by-side with him. He just won't trust or value his opinion the way he used to. And in a way, that's much more of a punishment to Sam than anything else could be. That Dean was there, right there, but not *his* Dean.

What I love about the ending is Dean isn't cutting Sam out of his life.

I know! I loved that, he didn't start screaming or anything like that and it was totally apparent that it doesn't change how Dean feels about Sam as far as brotherly feelings go. Dean still loves Sam and would do anything to protect him, however he doesn't trust Sam to feel the same way about him or to make the right decisions.

Oh, and Jared did the woobie faces so well in this ep, specially since he managed to convey along with them that once again Sam was making it all about HIM

Yep, Sammy's still his little brother, but not a valued equal anymore. Which, come to think of it, is probably something Sam's been trying to achieve ever since he started hunting- to get that look of approval from John and Dean (not to Dean's level of wanting John's approval, I'm sure, but it was still there- the younger sibling's 'I'm not a kid anymore, stop treating me like one' constand desire)

True but he didn't realize that Dean didn't disapprove of him before, its just that he was his little brother so Dean would always try to protect him.

Of course with John that desire to prove himself was coupled with a desire to prove John wrong and Sam right I'm sure

I really hope the show explores that- how Sam deals with Dean's disapproval. Will he start to present his research different?

Or will he turn it all around so that he's the injured party? Because after all he was trying to stop the Apocalypse, Dean should be proud of him for that.

I can totally see him trying to do that, it's the tactic he took with Bobby to some extent. Won't work on Dean though and I bet Dean'd call him on it pretty quickly.

Yeah, I think Dean is done with letting Sam get away with stuff. It's no longer the first season where Dean will let Sam get away with playing the 'Jess-card' and while Dean was willing to use Ruby at times he NEVER trusted her.

Oh and totally random but Dean as Micheal's 'sword'? Totally awesome, the angels only want him for his body ;-)

OMG! I so need to make an icon with that!

*hee* I hadn't thought of wording it quite that way!

I am interested by the implications of that though. When Dean was fighting with Bobby, and Bobby was about to stab him, Dean had his hand, palm up, in a strange position for a bit, and it was just after that when Bobby was able to get a flicker of control over the demon. We know from canon that controlling the demon is impossible, the meat-suit has no say in what the demon does. So did Dean (as Micheal's sword) do something unintentionally to enable Bobby to do that?

That's my theory, that being Micheal's chosen vessel means more than just being a meatsuit to a feathered dick. Because lets consider Deans life for a moment, he was trained/sharpened by his father, honed fighting evil, maybe even 'forged in hell fire' hmmm... what other analogies can I come up with.
Anyway I think Dean isn't special because he is Micheal's chosen vessel, I think he is the chosen vessel BECAUSE he is special.

And here's a thought, how much is Micheal in on the other Angels' plans?

I assume one of the reasons that Casteil appeared when he did at the storage locker was because SOMEONE was pissed at how Zachariah was dealing with things.

Although it's interesting. The Lucifer used psychological gobbley-gook to bend his vessel into accepting him. The angels were going for coercion through violence and implied murder. Who's the better party in that?

As far as Lucifer goes that makes sense. Christian myth is full of Lucifer being sneaky and getting people because of the 99.9% truth, and as for Zachariah........the in Dean's words the angel has been a douche since the beginning.

But it does bring up a question as to why they were taking that route, and why Micheal wasn't trying anything similar. That to me says he's not totally on board with ol' Z's plan, and either he or God is the reason Cas showed up when he did

That is a good question- where IS Micheal during all this?

And when did the angels learn Dean was his vessel? You'd think they would have used that as a way of gaining influence over Dean in the season finale- did they not know until the Dean/Bobby fight? Why plant the info about the sword's location? How much control does Zachariah have over Chuck's visions?

I would think that Dean being Micheal's vessel would be the real reason they had Cas pull him out of Hell, because that is when they started the 'you have to stop the apocalypse' shpeal, which we know they didn't actually want him to do.

As for gaining influence, they never really tried very hard, Z doesn't really care what humans think so I don't think he tried to hard.

As for the control over Chuck's vision, it sounds like they induced a self-fulfilling prophecy, tell Dean the 'sword' is somewhere and when he arrives there the sword is there.
As for 'losing' the 'sword' aka Dean, Sam made the anti-angel detecting hex bags. Between those and whoever dropped Dean on the plane they probably did lose him for a while. Also think, they tried to hide Dean away in the finale, and would have succeeded if Cas hadn't interfered.